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Wednesday, December 20, 2017

Patent US20110089249 - Thermostatic mixing valve with pressure reducing element

Read article : Patent US20110089249 - Thermostatic mixing valve with pressure reducing element
TECHNICAL FIELD

[0001]

The present disclosure relates generally to the field of mixing valves and more particularly to thermostatic mixing valves.

BACKGROUND

[0002]

Thermostatic mixing valves are used in a wide variety of applications for mixing fluids of dissimilar temperatures to produce a tempered fluid discharge output temperature. For example, and in one illustrative application, thermostatic mixing valves can be used in conjunction with water heaters. Water heaters are frequently used to supply hot water to desired locations within a house, office building, or other structure. To regulate the temperature of water discharged by the water heater, a thermostatic mixing valve can be connected to the hot water outlet of the water heater, allowing hot water discharged from the water heater to be mixed with cold water supplied to the structure to produce a relatively constant tempered discharge output temperature. The tempered water discharged from the mixing valve can be fed into the structure's hot water piping for subsequent use by the occupants. Often, a goal of such mixing valves is for the temperature of the mixed water to remain constant or nearly constant regardless of the temperature, pressure and/or flow rate of the hot and cold water supplied to the mixing valve.

SUMMARY

[0003]

The disclosure relates generally to thermostatic mixing valves, and more particularly to thermostatic mixing valves that are configured to provide improved temperature stability of the mixed water stream at the outlet of the mixing valve given variations in the temperature and/or pressure of the hot and/or cold water supplies to the valve, while still achieving relatively high flow rates through the valve. In one illustrative and not-limiting example, a thermostatic mixing valve may include a cold fluid inlet for passing a flow of cold fluid, a hot fluid inlet for passing a flow of hot fluid, and an outlet for passing a flow of mixed tempered fluid. A fluid flow regulator may be provided to regulate the relative flow of cold fluid from the cold fluid inlet and hot fluid from the hot fluid inlet to produce the flow of tempered fluid at the outlet of the valve. A pressure reducing element may be situated in the hot fluid inlet upstream of the fluid flow regulator. It has been found that such a pressure reducing element may, for example, help increased the temperature stability of the tempered fluid at the valve outlet given variations in the temperature and/or pressure of the hot and/or cold fluids presented at the hot fluid inlet and the cold fluid inlet of the valve.

[0004]

The above summary is not intended to describe each and every disclosed embodiment or every implementation of the disclosure. The Description that follows more particularly exemplifies various illustrative embodiments.

BRIEF DESCRIPTION OF THE DRAWINGS

[0005]

The disclosure may be more completely understood in consideration of the following detailed description of various embodiments in connection with the accompanying drawings, in which:

[0006]

FIG. 1 is a perspective view of an illustrative but non-limiting thermostatic mixing valve;

[0007]

FIG. 2 is a partial cross-sectional view of the illustrative thermostatic mixing valve of FIG. 1, showing an illustrative pressure reducing element;

[0008]

FIG. 3 is a front elevation view, with parts in cross-section, of another illustrative thermostatic mixing valve;

[0009]

FIG. 4 is a cross-sectional view of the illustrative thermostatic mixing valve of FIG. 3 shown an illustrative a pressure reducing element;

[0010]

FIG. 5 is a side view of another illustrative thermostatic mixing valve with a secondary hot port;

[0011]

FIG. 6 is a partial cross-sectional view of the illustrative thermostatic mixing valve of FIG. 5 showing an illustrative pressure reducing element; and

[0012]

FIG. 7 is a schematic view showing an illustrative water heater system employing a thermostatic mixing valve.

[0013]

While the invention is amenable to various modifications and alternative forms, specifics thereof have been shown by way of example in the drawings and will be described in detail. It should be understood, however, that the intention is not to limit aspects of the invention to the particular illustrative embodiments described. On the contrary, the intention is to cover all modifications, equivalents, and alternatives falling within the spirit and scope of the invention.

DESCRIPTION

[0014]

The following description should be read with reference to the drawings in which similar elements in different drawings have similar reference numbers. The description and the drawings, which are not necessarily to scale, depict illustrative embodiments and are not intended to limit the scope of the invention. The illustrative embodiments depicted are intended only as exemplary. Selected features of any illustrative embodiment may be incorporated into other embodiments unless clearly stated to the contrary.

[0015]

All numeric values are herein assumed to be modified by the term “about”, whether or not explicitly indicated. The term “about” generally refers to a range of numbers that one of skill in the art would consider equivalent to the recited value (i.e., having the same function or result). In many instances, the term “about” may be indicative as including numbers that are rounded to the nearest significant figure. The recitation of numerical ranges by endpoints is intended to include all numbers within that range (e.g., 1 to 5 includes 1, 1.5, 2, 2.75, 3, 3.80, 4, and 5).

[0016]

Although some suitable dimensions, ranges and/or values pertaining to various components, features and/or specifications are disclosed, one of skill in the art, incited by the present disclosure, would understand desired dimensions, ranges and/or values may deviate from those expressly disclosed.

[0017]

FIG. 1 is a perspective view of an illustrative but non-limiting thermostatic mixing valve 2. The illustrative thermostatic mixing valve 2 includes a valve body 10 that has a hot fluid inlet 16, a cold fluid inlet 18 and a mixed fluid outlet 20. The hot fluid inlet 16 is configured to receive fluid at an elevated temperature from, for example, a water heater, a boiler, or any other suitable heating source, and can include a tailpiece fitting (not shown) or other suitable connector for connecting the hot fluid inlet 16 to the supply (e.g. pipe) of hot fluid. Likewise, the cold fluid inlet 18 is configured to receive colder fluid from, for example, a cold water supply, and can include a tailpiece fitting 19 or other suitable connector for connecting the cold fluid inlet 18 to the supply (e.g. pipe) of colder fluid.

[0018]

In the illustrative embodiment, the mixed fluid outlet 20 is configured to output a fluid that is a mixture of the hot fluid received at the hot fluid inlet 16 and the colder fluid received at the cold fluid inlet 18, resulting in a discharge fluid having a tempered discharge temperature. The tempered mixed fluid outlet 20 may be fluidly connected to the hot water piping of a building or other structure, and can include a tailpiece fitting 21 or other suitable connector similar to that provided for the hot and cold fluid inlets 16, 18. A fluid flow regulator (not explicitly shown in FIG. 1) may be positioned in the valve body 10 to regulate the relative flow of cold fluid from the cold fluid inlet 18 and hot fluid from the hot fluid inlet 16 to produce the flow of tempered fluid at the outlet 20. The fluid flow regulator may be a thermally controlled fluid regulator, similar to the fluid flow regulator 190 shown and described below with respect to FIG. 4. A pressure reducing element may be formed in the hot fluid inlet upstream of the fluid flow regulator, as will be discussed in more detail with respect to FIG. 2.

[0019]

In some cases, the mixing valve 2 may also include an optional recirculation inlet 22 configured to receive tempered water from the water piping of the building or other structure, and can include a tailpiece fitting (not shown) or other suitable connector. The recirculation inlet 22 may be used to recirculate water that has previously been delivered to the hot water piping back to the mixing valve 2. The recirculation inlet 22 may be useful in ensuring that hot water at the tempered temperature is immediately available at a desired location within the building, such as in a shower or the like.

[0020]

The illustrative thermostatic mixing valve 2 also includes an optional secondary hot port 24 for providing hot water directly to an appliance or other fixture that can use non-tempered hot water (e.g. water provided directly from a water heater or the like). For example, the optional secondary hot port 24 may be used to supply non-tempered hot water to a dishwasher, a clothes washer, a humidifier, and/or any other suitable appliance, fixture or device, as desired. The secondary hot port 24 may reduce or eliminate the need for a separate “T” connector off of the water heater source. The secondary hot port 24 can include a tailpiece fitting (not shown) or other suitable connector. The tailpiece fittings may each include a union sweat fitting, threaded fitting (e.g. NPT, NPS, etc.), compression fitting, PEX fitting, and/or any other suitable fitting that can be used to connect the various inlets and outlets of the mixing valve 2 to the other components of the installed system. A threaded coupling (not shown) can be used to secure each of the tailpiece fittings 19, 21 to the valve body 10, if desired.

[0021]

As can be further seen in FIG. 1, the illustrative thermostatic mixing valve 2 may have a configuration wherein the hot fluid inlet 16 and mixed fluid outlet 20 are vertically and axially aligned along an axis L of the longitudinal portion of valve body 10. This may allow the mixing valve to be mounted “in line” with a water heater hot water outlet pipe, which can simplify installation in some cases. The cold water inlet 18, in turn, may enter the valve body 10 at an angle along axis A, or any angle desired, to the side housing 13. In some embodiments, the cold water inlet 18 may enter the valve body 10 at an angle orthogonal to the longitudinal axis L to permit direct access to the cold water inlet port provided on many conventional water heaters, as described in copending U.S. patent application Ser. No. 12/273,370, filed Nov. 18, 2008, entitled “Thermostatic Mixing Valve with Secondary Hot Port”, which is incorporated by reference.

[0022]

In the illustrative embodiment of FIG. 1, recirculation inlet 22 is shown entering the valve body 10 at an angle orthogonal to the longitudinal axis L, but in a direction opposite that of the cold water inlet 18. In some cases, recirculation inlet 22 may enter valve body 10 at a different angle. While mixing valve 2 is shown as having recirculation inlet 22, the recirculation inlet 22 is optional and thus may be excluded. Likewise, the secondary hot port 24 may exit the valve body 10 at an angle orthogonal to the longitudinal axis L to permit direct access to the secondary hot port 24. In the illustrative embodiment, the secondary hot port 24 is positioned at a location upstream from a mixing chamber such that non-tempered hot water is available directly from the hot water source. As with the recirculation inlet 22, the secondary hot port 24 is optional and not required.

[0023]

During operation, the mixing valve 2 can be adjusted to proportionately mix cold and hot water received at each of the water inlets 16,18, which can then be outputted as tempered water at a relatively constant, pre-selected temperature through the mixed water outlet 20. In certain applications, for example, the mixing valve 2 can be configured to output water at a relatively constant or mixed water temperature of about 120° F., while permitting a water heater to operate at elevated temperatures in the range of, for example, about 120° F. to 180° F.

[0024]

As discussed above, some water heaters may be configured to produce hot water that is at a temperature that is significantly hotter than that desired in the structure's hot water piping. By increasing the temperature of the water supplied by the water heater, a greater amount of cold water may be mixed with the hot water to increase the effective heating capacity of the water heater. Also, some water heaters operate at a higher efficiency when the operating temperature is elevated. For example, in an 80-gallon water heater, such an increase in the operating temperature may result in an increase in the effective hot water capacity that is similar to that of a 120-gallon water heater operating at a lower temperature. It should be understood, however, that the thermostatic mixing valve 2 and/or water heater can be configured to operate at other temperature ranges, as desired.

[0025]

In the illustrative embodiment of FIG. 1, a temperature adjustment device 12 is disposed within a side housing 13 of the valve body 10, and can be provided to adjust the temperature of tempered fluid discharged from the mixing valve 2. In residential water heating systems, for example, the temperature selection device 12 can be used to adjust the thermostatic mixing valve 2 to output tempered water at a set-point temperature in the range of about 70° F. to 145° F., 70° F. to 120° F., 90° F. to 130° F., or any other temperature range as desired. The set-point temperature selected by the temperature selection device 12 may vary based on the application. In the illustrative embodiment, the temperature adjustment device 12 includes a hand wheel 14 that can be manually turned by a user. However, it is contemplated that the illustrative temperature adjustment device 12 may include any suitable mechanism for adjusting the set-point of the mixing valve 2. When provided, temperature adjustment device 12 may be similar to that described in copending U.S. patent application Ser. No. 12/273,307, filed Nov. 18, 2008, entitled “Thermostatic Mixing Valve with Tamper Resistant Adjustment Feature”, which is incorporated by reference.

[0026]

FIG. 2 is a partial cross-sectional view of the illustrative thermostatic mixing valve of FIG. 1, showing an illustrative pressure reducing element 15. The fluid flow regulator of the thermostatic mixing valve has been removed for clarity. When not removed, the fluid flow regulator would be situated in the cavity labeled 17. As can be further seen in FIG. 2, the illustrative thermostatic mixing valve 2 has a configuration wherein the hot fluid inlet 16 and tempered or mixed fluid outlet 20 are vertically and axially aligned along an axis of the longitudinal portion of valve body 10, but this is not required. This may allow the mixing valve to be mounted “in line” with a water heater hot water outlet pipe, which can simplify installation in some cases. The cold water inlet (not shown in FIG. 2), in turn, may enter the valve body 10 at an angle orthogonal to the longitudinal axis “L” (see FIG. 1) to permit direct access to the cold water inlet port provided on many conventional water heaters.

[0027]

The illustrative thermostatic mixing valve 2 also includes a pressure reducing element 15 that is situated in the hot fluid inlet port 16 upstream of chamber 17, which if shown, would house the fluid flow regulator. The pressure reducing element 15 may include, for example, a pressure reduction disk or snubber element 15 that defines an aperture with a cross-sectional area, such as an aperture with a diameter “D”. In some embodiments, pressure reducing element 15 may be integrally formed with the valve housing 10. In other embodiments, the pressure reducing element 15 may be a separate component that is fitted in the hot fluid port 16. In some embodiments, hot fluid inlet port 16 may have a first cross-sectional area upstream of the pressure reducing element 15. The first cross-sectional area of the hot fluid inlet port 16 may be greater than the cross-sectional area of the aperture of the pressure reducing element 15. In some cases, the cross-sectional area of the hot fluid inlet port 16 may be configured to facilitate connection with a hot fluid supply. In some cases, the pressure reducing element 15 may be situated a distance downstream of the entry of the hot fluid inlet port 16, and downstream of the mixing chamber 17 as shown in FIG. 2.

[0028]

Pressure reducing element 15 may define an aperture having a cross-sectional area that is smaller than the cross-sectional area of hot fluid inlet port 16. In some instances, the cross-sectional area of the aperture of the pressure reducing element 15, illustrated by diameter D in FIG. 2, may be 80% or less, 60% or less, 40% or less, or 20% or less, of the cross-sectional area of the hot fluid inlet port 16 upstream of the pressure reducing element 15. In the illustrative embodiment, the diameter D of the aperture of the pressure reducing element 15 may be set to any suitable value, depending on the desired flow rate through the mixing valve 2. For example, the diameter D may be smaller than 0.10 inches, 0.10 inches, 0.20 inches, 0.30 inches, 0.4 inches or larger depending on the application. In one example, the cross-sectional area of the hot fluid inlet port 16 upstream of the pressure reducing element 15 may be greater than about 0.12 inches square, and the cross-sectional area of the aperture at the pressure reducing element 15 may be less than about 0.07 inches square. In another example, the cross-sectional area of the hot fluid inlet port 16 upstream of the pressure reducing element 15 may be greater than about 0.19 inches square, and the cross-sectional area of the aperture at the pressure reducing element 15 may be less than about 0.13 inches square.

[0029]

In yet another example, the cold fluid inlet 18 (see FIG. 1) of the thermostatic mixing valve 10 may be dimensioned to pass a first flow rate of cold fluid when the cold fluid is presented to the thermostatic mixing valve at a first pressure. The hot fluid inlet 16 of the thermostatic mixing valve 10 may be dimensioned to pass a second flow rate of hot fluid when the hot fluid is presented to the thermostatic mixing valve at the same first pressure. In some cases, the second flow rate is less than 80% of the first flow rate, sometimes due to the presence of a pressure reducing element 15 or some other feature of the hot fluid inlet 16 and no equivalent feature in the cold fluid inlet. In other cases, the second flow rate may be less than 60%, less than 40%, less than 20% or even less than the first flow rate, depending on the application.

[0030]

While the aperture in pressure reducing element 15 of FIG. 2 is illustrated as a circular aperture, it is contemplated the aperture may be of any suitable shape including, for example, square, elliptical, rectangular, or polygonal. In some embodiments, pressure reducing element 15 may be formed of brass, however, it is contemplated that the pressure reducing element 15 may be formed of any suitable material or material combination as desired, such as, but not limited to other metals, metal alloys, elastomers, and/or plastics. The material of the pressure reducing element 15 may be selected in accordance with the environment in which the valve may be used.

[0031]

The illustrative mixing valve 2 of FIG. 2 may also include an optional secondary hot port 24 for providing hot water directly to an appliance or other fixture that can use non-tempered hot water (e.g. water provided directly from a water heater or the like). As can be seen in FIG. 2, the secondary hot port 24 may be disposed at a location upstream of the mixing chamber 17 such that non-tempered water may be available directly from the mixing valve 2. In some cases, such an optional secondary hot port 24 may be used to supply non-tempered hot water to a dishwasher, a clothes washer, a humidifier, and/or any other suitable appliance, fixture or device, as desired. The secondary hot port 24 may reduce or eliminate the need for a separate “T” connector off of the water heater source.

[0032]

FIG. 3 is a front elevation view, with parts in cross-section, of another illustrative thermostatic mixing valve. While the configuration of mixing valve 102 in FIG. 3 is somewhat different from that of mixing valve 2 of FIGS. 1-2, its general function is similar. Similar to that discussed above with respect to FIG. 1, mixing valve 102 of FIG. 3 has a hot fluid inlet 116, a cold fluid inlet 118, and a mixed fluid outlet 120. The hot fluid inlet 116, cold fluid inlet 118, and mixed fluid outlet 120 can each include a tailpiece fitting 117,119,121 or other suitable connector for connecting the inlet ports 116,118,120 to a water system. For example, threaded couplings 146 can be used to secure each of the tailpiece fittings 117,119,121 to the valve body 110, but this is not required. It is contemplated that the mixing valve 102 may also include an optional recirculation inlet (not shown) configured to receive tempered water, and can include an associated tailpiece fitting (not shown) or other suitable connector. Similar to the embodiment shown in FIG. 1, mixing valve 102 may include an optional secondary hot port (not shown) for providing hot water to appliances or other fixtures that do not require tempered hot water, such as but not limited to dishwashers, clothes dryers, humidifiers, etc.

[0033]

As can be further seen in FIG. 3, the mixing valve 102 may have a vertical, in-line configuration wherein the hot fluid inlet 116 and mixed fluid outlet 120 are vertically and axially aligned along an axis L of the valve body 110. As discussed above, this may allow the mixing valve to be mounted “in line” with a water heater hot water outlet pipe, which can simplify installation. As shown, the cold water inlet 118, in turn, may enter the valve body 110 at an angle orthogonal to the longitudinal axis L to permit direct access to the cold water inlet port provided on many conventional water heaters. The recirculation inlet, when provided, may enter the valve body 110 at an angle orthogonal to the longitudinal axis L, but in a direction opposite that of the cold water inlet 118, or any other desired location. The secondary hot port, when provided, may exit the valve body 110 at an angle orthogonal to the longitudinal axis L to permit direct access to the secondary hot port, but this is not required. While an in-line configuration is shown in FIGS. 1 and 3, it is contemplated that the mixing valve may have any suitable configuration including a “T” configuration or any other suitable configuration as desired. In a “T” configuration, a hot fluid inlet and a cold fluid inlet may enter the valve body from left and right sides, respectively, and a mixed fluid outlet may exit the valve body in a downward direction. This is just another example configuration that may be used.

[0034]

Similar to the embodiment described in FIG. 1, during operation, the mixing valve 102 can be adjusted to proportionately mix hot and cold water received at each of the water inlets 116,118, in order to provide tempered water at a relative constant temperature through mixed water outlet 120. As previously discussed, in certain applications, for example, the mixing valve 102 can be configured to output water at a relatively constant mixed water temperature of about 120° F., while permitting a water heater to operate at elevated temperatures in the range of, for example, about 120° F. to 180° F. It should be understood, however, that the mixing valve 102 and/or water heater can be configured to operate at other temperature ranges, if desired.

[0035]

As shown in FIG. 3, a temperature adjustment device 112 may be disposed within a side housing 113 of the valve body 110. The temperature adjustment device 112 can be used to adjust the temperature of fluid discharged from the mixed fluid outlet 120 of the mixing valve 102. In residential water heating systems, for example, the temperature adjustment device 112 can be used to adjust the mixing valve 102 to output tempered water at a set-point temperature in the range of about 70° F. to 145° F., 70° F. to 120° F., 90° F. to 130° F., or within any other suitable range, as desired. The set-point temperature selected by the temperature adjustment device 112 may vary depending on the application. In the illustrative embodiment, the temperature adjustment device 112 may include a hand wheel 114 for adjusting the set-point of the mixing valve 102.

[0036]

FIG. 4 is a cross-sectional view of the illustrative thermostatic mixing valve of FIG. 3 shown an illustrative a pressure reducing element 115. As shown in FIG. 4, the hot fluid inlet 116 of the valve body 110 may include gasket 108 adapted to frictionally secure a tailpiece fitting 117 to the valve body 110. The tailpiece fitting 117, in turn, can be secured to the valve body 110 using a threaded coupling 146. Such a configuration may permit the tailpiece fitting 117 to be separately connected to a pipe or a conduit supplying hot water from a water heater or the like, and attached thereto using the threaded coupling 146. A similar arrangement can be provided for connecting tailpiece fittings to the cold fluid inlet 118 and mixed fluid outlet 120, if desired.

[0037]

The illustrative mixing valve 102 also includes a pressure reducing element 115. Pressure reducing element 115 may be an annular pressure reduction disk defining an aperture with a diameter D1 disposed in the hot fluid inlet port 116. In some embodiments, pressure reducing element 115 may be integrally formed with the valve housing 110. In other embodiments, the pressure reducing element may be a separate component press fit or otherwise provided in the hot fluid port 116. In some embodiments, hot fluid inlet port 116 may have a first cross-sectional area different from the cross-sectional area defined by the aperture in pressure reducing element 115. In some cases, the cross-sectional area of the hot fluid inlet port 116 upstream of the pressure reducing element 115 may be configured to more easily connect to a hot fluid supply pipe. Pressure reducing element 115 may be positioned a distance downstream from the entry of the hot fluid inlet port 116, but upstream of a fluid flow regulator 190.

[0038]

Pressure reducing element 115 may define an aperture having a cross-sectional area (illustrated by diameter D1 in FIG. 4) that is less than the cross-sectional area of hot fluid inlet port 116 upstream of the pressure reducing element 115. In some instances, the cross-sectional area of the aperture of the pressure reducing element 115 may be 80% or less, 60% or less, 40% or less, or 20% or less, of the cross-sectional area of the hot fluid inlet port 116 and/or the cold fluid inlet port 118. The cross-sectional area of the aperture of the pressure reducing element 115 may be set depending on the desired flow rate through the mixing valve 102. For example, in the illustrative embodiment of FIG. 4, the diameter D1 of the pressure reducing element 115 may be smaller than 0.10 inches, 0.10 inches, 0.20 inches, 0.30 inches, 0.4 inches, or larger depending on the application. In one example, the cross-sectional area of the hot fluid inlet port 116 upstream of the pressure reducing element 115 may be greater than about 0.12 inches square, and the cross-sectional area of the aperture at the pressure reducing element 115 may be less than about 0.07 inches square. In another example, the cross-sectional area of the hot fluid inlet port 116 upstream of the pressure reducing element 115 may be greater than about 0.19 inches square, and the cross-sectional area of the aperture at the pressure reducing element 115 may be less than about 0.13 inches square.

[0039]

In yet another example, the cold fluid inlet 118 of the thermostatic mixing valve 102 may be dimensioned to pass a first flow rate of cold fluid when the cold fluid is presented to the thermostatic mixing valve at a first pressure. The hot fluid inlet 116 of the thermostatic mixing valve 102 may be dimensioned to pass a second flow rate of hot fluid when the hot fluid is presented to the thermostatic mixing valve at the same first pressure. In some cases, the second flow rate is less than 80% of the first flow rate, sometimes due to the presence of a pressure reducing element 115 or some other feature of the hot fluid inlet 116 and no equivalent feature in the cold fluid inlet 118. In other cases, the second flow rate may be less than 60%, less than 40%, less than 20% or even less than the first flow rate, depending on the application.

[0040]

While the aperture in pressure reducing element 115 of FIG. 4 is illustrated as a circular aperture, it is contemplated the aperture may be of any suitable shape including, for example, square, elliptical, rectangular, or polygonal. In some embodiments, pressure reducing element 115 may be formed of brass, however, it is contemplated that the pressure reducing element 115 may be formed of any suitable material or material combination as desired, such as, but not limited to other metals, metal alloys, and/or plastics. The material of the pressure reducing element 115 may be selected in accordance with the environment in which the valve may be used.

[0041]

The fluid flow regulator 190 of FIG. 4 thermostatically adjusts the flow of cold and hot fluid injected into a mixing chamber 160 of the valve body 110. In the illustrative embodiment, the fluid flow regulator 190 includes a spool 162, a modulating spring 164, a piston stem 166, a bypass spring 168, a diffuser 170, and a temperature sensitive (e.g. wax filled) thermal element 172. The spool 162 may be movably disposed between a first inner surface 174 of valve body 110 and a second inner surface 176 of the valve body 110 in a direction substantially aligned with the general longitudinal axis L (see FIG. 3). The distance between the first inner surface 174 of the valve body 110 and the second inner surface 176 thereof is referred to as the spool stroke, and is typically greater than the overall axial length of the spool 162 to permit the spool 162 to travel up and down within the interior of the valve body 110. An O-ring 178 can be provided to frictionally support the spool 162 within the valve body 110 as the spool 162 is actuated between the first and second inner surfaces 174,176. In some embodiments, the spool 162, valve body 110 as well as other internal components of the mixing valve 102 can be coated with a layer of Teflon® or other suitable lubricous material to facilitate movement of the spool 162 within the valve body 110 and/or to prevent mineral buildup from occurring within the mixing valve 102, but this is not required.

[0042]

The spring 164 can be used to bias the spool 162 towards the first inner surface 174 of the valve body 110, and can be operatively coupled at a first (i.e. upper) end to a hub 180 which is coupled to the lower end of the piston stem 166, and at a second (i.e. lower) end to a portion 182 of the end cap 184. The bypass spring 168 can be provided to further load the spool 162 and spring 164. The spring 164 and bypass spring 168 can be operatively coupled to the piston stem 166, which can be configured to move within the valve body 110 as a result of the axial expansion and contraction of the thermal element 172 in response to the temperature of fluid contained within the mixing chamber 160.

[0043]

A diffuser 170 may be configured to help mix or blend hot and cold fluid contained within the mixing chamber 160 prior to passing upwardly beyond the thermal element 172 and out the mixed fluid outlet 120. The diffuser 170 may be formed as a separate element from the piston stem 166 or can be formed integral therewith from a single piece of material. In certain embodiments, for example, the piston stem 166 and diffuser 170 can be formed from a single composite piece of polypropylene loaded with fiberglass, although other configurations are contemplated.

[0044]

The temperature adjustment device 112 may include an adjustment mechanism that is rotatably disposed within the side housing 113 of the valve body 110. In certain embodiments, the adjustment mechanism may include an adjusting screw 130, a collar 148, an O-ring 156, and a spring element 128 disposed within a hand wheel 114, allowing the user to adjust the temperature or set-point of the fluid discharged from the mixed fluid outlet 120 of the mixing valve 102 without any special tools, yet help prevent accidental adjustment of the output mixed temperature.

[0045]

The hand wheel 114 may have a first engagement surface 154 while the adjusting screw 130 may have a second engagement surface 132. In the illustrative embodiment shown, the center support 154 may extend orthogonally outward from an internal surface 123 of the hand wheel 114, and may include a hole or recess extending therethrough. The first engagement surface 154 may be formed or otherwise disposed on the internal surface of the hole or recess of the center support 154 as shown, and may be formed as gear-like teeth. In FIG. 4, the hand wheel 114 is movable in an axial direction toward the adjusting screw 130, and rotatable relative to the attachment screw 130.

[0046]

Hand wheel 114 is shown in a non-temperature adjusting position in FIG. 4. When in the non-temperature adjusting position, the first engagement surface 154 is disengaged from the second engagement surface 132. As such, the hand wheel 114 can be rotated without causing rotation of the adjusting screw 130. Since the adjusting screw 130 is not rotated, the output temperature of the mixing valve 102 is not manipulated. This may help prevent accidental and/or unintentional manipulation of the output temperature of the mixing valve 102 by a user. Spring 128 biases the hand wheel 114 into the non-temperature adjusting position.

[0047]

In the illustrative embodiment, the temperature of the fluid exiting the mixed outlet port 120 of the mixing valve 120 may be adjusted by moving the hand wheel 114 axially towards the valve body 110, overcoming the bias of the spring 128, to a temperature adjusting position. When in the temperature adjusting position, the first engagement surface 154 may become engaged with the second engagement surface 132. Once engaged, the hand wheel 114 may be turned in a clockwise or counterclockwise direction resulting in the rotation of the adjusting screw 130. In the illustrative embodiment, this causes the adjusting screw 130 to move axially along axis 131 in a direction that corresponds to the direction that the hand wheel 114 was turned. The O-ring 156 disposed within the interior of the side housing 113 can be configured to provide a fluidic seal for the adjustment screw 130 while permitting axial movement of the adjusting screw 130 along the axis 131.

[0048]

In the illustrative embodiment, a collar 196 movably disposed within the mixing chamber 160 in a direction axially along the longitudinal axis L of the valve body 110, is configured to engage the fluid flow regulator 190 for adjusting the nominal positioning of the spool 162 within the valve body 110. The nominal position of the spool 162 within the valve body defines the “set-point” of the mixing valve 102. The illustrative collar 196 defines an angled surface 199 that is adapted to engage a tapered section 106 of the adjusting screw 130. During use, the temperature selection device 112 is operable by moving the hand wheel 114 axially along axis 131 until the first engagement surface 154 engages the second engagement surface 132. The hand wheel 114 is then turned in either a clockwise or counterclockwise direction, causing the adjusting screw 130 and adjusting stem 152 to move axially along axis 131. As the adjusting screw 130 moves, the tapered section 106 of the adjusting screw 130 moves the collar 196 and thus the nominal position of the spool 162 in either an upward or downward direction, respectively, within the valve body 110.

[0049]

Rotation of the adjustment screw 130 in a clockwise direction, for example, causes the tapered section 106 to push the collar 196 and thus the nominal position of the spool 162 in a downward direction within the valve body 110. This increases the amount of compression within the spring 164 and moves the spool 162 further towards the second inner surface 176 of the valve body 110. Conversely, rotation of the adjustment screw 130 in a counterclockwise direction causes the tapered section 106 to move the collar 196 and thus the nominal position of the spool 162 in an upward direction within the valve body 110. This decreases the amount of compression within the spring 164 and moves the spool 162 towards the first inner surface 174 of the valve body 110. Such adjustment of the distance of the spool 162 between the first and second inner surfaces 174,176 results in a nominal change in the ratio of hot and cold water mixed within the mixing valve 110, resulting in a change in the “set-point” temperature of fluid discharged from the mixing valve 102.

[0050]

FIG. 5 is a side view of another illustrative thermostatic mixing valve 202 with a secondary hot port. While the configuration of mixing valve 202 is slightly different from that of mixing valves 2 and 102, the general function of mixing valve 202 is similar to that of valves 2 and 102. As discussed above with respect to FIGS. 1 and 3, mixing valve 202 may have a hot fluid inlet 216, a cold fluid inlet 218, and a mixed fluid outlet 220. The hot fluid inlet 216, cold fluid inlet 218, and mixed fluid outlet can each include a tailpiece fitting or other suitable connector for connecting the ports 216,218,220 to the water piping within a building or other structure.

[0051]

As shown, the illustrative mixing valve 202 may include an optional recirculation inlet 222 configured to receive tempered water, and can include a tailpiece fitting (not shown) or other suitable connector if desired. Similar to the embodiment shown in FIG. 1, mixing valve 202 may include an optional secondary hot port 224 for providing hot water to appliances or other fixtures that do not require tempered hot water, such as but not limited to dishwashers, clothes washers, humidifiers, etc. The secondary hot port 224 can include a tailpiece fitting (not shown) or other suitable connector, if desired. The tailpiece fittings may each include a union sweat fitting, threaded fitting (e.g. NPT, NPS, etc.), compression fitting, PEX fittings, and/or any other suitable fittings for connecting the various inlets and outlets of the mixing valve 202 to the other components of the system. A threaded coupling (not shown) can be used to secure each of the tailpiece fittings to the valve body 210, if desired.

[0052]

As can be seen in FIG. 5, the mixing valve 202 may have a configuration whereby the hot fluid inlet 216 and mixed fluid outlet 220 are vertically and axially aligned along an axis L of the valve body 210. This may allow the mixing valve 202 to be mounted “in line” with a water heater hot water outlet pipe, which can simplify installation. The cold water inlet 218, in turn, may enter the valve body 210 at an angle orthogonal to the longitudinal axis L to permit direct access to the cold water inlet port provided on many conventional water heaters. In the illustrative embodiment of FIG. 5, recirculation inlet 222 is shown entering the valve body 210 at an angle orthogonal to the longitudinal axis L, but in a direction perpendicular to that of the cold water inlet 218. In some cases, recirculation inlet 222 may enter valve body 210 at a different angle, if desired. While mixing valve 202 is shown as having recirculation inlet 222, the recirculation inlet 322 is optional and thus may be excluded. Likewise, the secondary hot port 224 may exit the valve body 210 at an angle orthogonal to the longitudinal axis L to permit direct access to the secondary hot port 224. In the illustrative embodiment, the secondary hot port 224 is positioned at a location upstream from a mixing chamber such that non-tempered hot water is available directly from the hot water source. As with the recirculation inlet 322, the secondary hot port 224 is optional and not required.

[0053]

It is contemplated that a pressure reducing element may be inserted or otherwise provided in the hot fluid inlet 216 of the mixing valve 202 upstream of a fluid flow regulator, as shown in FIG. 6. Like FIG. 2, the fluid flow regulator of the mixing valve 202 has been removed for clarity, but would be positioned in cavity 217 if shown. As can be further seen in FIG. 6, the mixing valve 202 may have a configuration wherein the hot fluid inlet 316 and mixed fluid outlet 220 are vertically and axially aligned along an axis of the longitudinal portion of valve body 210. This may allow the mixing valve to be mounted “in line” with a water heater hot water outlet pipe, which can simplify installation. The cold water inlet (not shown), in turn, may enter the valve body 210 at an angle orthogonal to the longitudinal axis to permit direct access to the cold water inlet port provided on many conventional water heaters.

[0054]

As shown, the mixing valve 202 may include a pressure reducing element 215. In some cases, pressure reducing element 215 may be an annular pressure reduction disk 15 defining an aperture with a diameter D2 disposed in the hot fluid inlet port 216. In some embodiments, pressure reducing element 215 may be integrally formed with the valve housing 210. In other embodiments, the pressure reducing element may be a separate component press fit or otherwise provided in the hot fluid port 216. In some embodiments, hot fluid inlet port 216 may have a first cross-sectional area different from the cross-sectional area defined by the aperture in pressure reducing element 215. The cross-sectional area of the hot fluid inlet port 216 may be configured to connect with a hot fluid supply. In some cases, pressure reducing element 215 may be positioned a distance downstream from the hot fluid inlet port, and upstream from the chamber 217 which would house the fluid flow regulator if shown. It is contemplated that pressure reducing element 215 may be positioned anywhere upstream of the fluid flow regulator.

[0055]

In some instances, pressure reducing element 215 may define an aperture having a cross-sectional area (illustrated by diameter D2) that is less than the cross-sectional area of hot fluid inlet port. In some instances, the cross-sectional area, illustrated by diameter D2, may be 80% or less, 60% or less, 40% or less, or 20% or less, of the cross-sectional area of the hot fluid inlet port 216. The diameter D2 of the aperture in pressure reducing element 215 may be set depending on the desired flow rate through the mixing valve 202. For example, the diameter D2 may be smaller than 0.10 inches, 0.10 inches, 0.20 inches, 0.30 inches, 0.4 inches or larger depending on the application. While the aperture in pressure reducing element 215 is illustrated as a circular aperture, it is contemplated the opening may be of any suitable shape including, for example, square, elliptical, rectangular, or polygonal. In some embodiments, pressure reducing element 215 may be formed of brass, however, it is contemplated that the pressure reducing element 215 may be of any material desired, such as, but not limited to other metals, metal alloys, and/or plastics. The material of the pressure reducing element 215 may be selected in accordance with the environment in which the valve may be used.

[0056]

The illustrative mixing valve 202 may include an optional secondary hot port 224 for providing hot water directly to an appliance or other fixture that can use non-tempered hot water (e.g. water provided directly from a water heater or the like). As can be seen in FIG. 6, the secondary hot port 224 may be disposed at a location upstream of chamber 217 such that non-tempered water may be available directly from the mixing valve 202. For example, the optional secondary hot port 224 may be used to supply non-tempered hot water to a dishwasher, a clothes washer, a humidifier, and/or any other suitable appliance, fixture or device, as desired. The secondary hot port 224 may reduce or eliminate the need for a separate “T” connector off of the water heater source.

[0057]

In some embodiments, the mixing valve 202 may include an optional recirculation inlet 222 in fluid communication with a return pipe or conduit that can be used to recirculate tempered water discharged from the mixed water outlet 220 back into the mixing valve 202. In use, the ability to recirculate water through the mixing valve 202 may help prevent cold water from building up within the mixed water pipe or conduit during periods of nonuse, or when the demand for mixed water is low. Such recirculation feature within the mixing valve 202 can also be used to overcome the characteristic of many thermostatic mixing valves to overshoot the desired mixing temperature after relatively long periods of nonuse (e.g. overnight) or shortly after a previous draw.

[0058]

FIG. 7 is a schematic view showing an illustrative but non-limiting water heater system 300 employing a thermostatic mixing valve 302 that may be similar to the thermostatic mixing valves 2, 102, and/or 202 described above. As shown in FIG. 7, thermostatic mixing valve 302 may be installed within a water heater system 300 having a cold water supply 304, a water heater 306, and a number of fixture units 308,310,312,360, in fluid communication with the mixing valve 302, cold water supply 304, and a water heater 306. Water heater system 300 may represent, for example, a residential water heater system adapted to deliver hot water to a number of fixture units such as a shower, bath, lavatory, faucet, clothes washer, dishwasher, or other such device wherein the delivery of tempered hot water is desired.

[0059]

Cold water supplied by the cold water supply 304 can be delivered through a first pipe or conduit 314 for delivery directly to each of the fixture units 308,310,312,360 within the system 300. A second pipe or conduit 326 in fluid communication with a cold water inlet 318 of the mixing valve 302 and a check-valve 328, in turn, may be used to supply cold water to the mixing valve 302, which can be mixed with hot water discharged from the water heater 306. A backflow preventer, check valve, pressure reducing valve, or other suitable mechanism 362 for controlling backflow at the inlet of the cold water supply 304 can be provided to make the system 300 a closed system, if desired. In such embodiments, an expansion tank 430 can be provided in fluid communication with the water heater 306 to relieve any excess pressure within the water heater 306 and/or to prevent the discharge of water from the safety relief valve provided on many water heaters. A shut-off valve 332 can also be provided along the pipe or conduit 326 to permit the user to shut-off the supply of water delivered to the mixing valve 302 and/or water heater 306, if desired.

[0060]

An inlet port 334 of the water heater 306 can be configured to receive cold water via a water heater inlet pipe 336 in fluid communication with pipe or conduit 326. If desired, the inlet port 334 of the water heater 306 can be equipped with an optional heat trap 338 for reducing convection currents at the inlet port 334 of the water heater 306 that can cause thermo-siphoning of heat from the water heater 306.

[0061]

An outlet port 340 of the water heater 306 can be configured to deliver hot water through pipe or conduit 342 and into a hot water inlet 316 of the mixing valve 302. The outlet port 340 of the water heater 306 will typically be located close to the hot water inlet 316 of the mixing valve 302 (e.g. ≦1 ft) to reduce head and thermal losses through pipe or conduit 342. In certain embodiments, for example, the hot water inlet 316 of the mixing valve 302 can be coupled directly to the outlet port 340 of the water heater 306 using a threaded pipe fitting, union sweat connection, or other suitable connector. If desired, a diverter pipe 344 in fluid communication with a secondary hot port 324 on the mixing valve can be provided to divert some of the hot water discharged from the water heater 306 to other fixtures 360 within the system 300 (e.g. a dishwasher, clothes washer, humidifier, etc.) where temperature regulation via the mixing valve 302 may be undesired.

[0062]

During operation, the mixing valve 302 can be configured to proportionately mix cold and hot water received at each of the water inlets 318,316, which can then be outputted as tempered water at a relatively constant, pre-selected temperature through a mixed water outlet 320 and hot water piping or conduit 346 in fluid communication with each of the fixture units 304,405,306 that require tempered water. In certain applications, for example, the mixing valve 302 can be configured to output water at a relatively constant mixed water temperature of about 120° F. while permitting the water heater 306 to operate at elevated temperatures in the range of, for example, about 120° F. to 180° F. Such an increase in the operating temperature of the water heater 306 can result in an increased amount of effective hot water capacity available for use. For an 80-gallon water heater, for example, such an increase in the operating temperature may result in an increase in the effective hot water capacity to a level similar to that of a 120-gallon water heater operating at a lower temperature of 120° F. It should be understood, however, that the mixing valve 302 and/or water heater 306 can be configured to operate at other temperatures and/or temperature ranges, if desired.

[0063]

While the illustrative mixing valve 302 of FIG. 7 is shown installed within a water heater system, it should be understood that the mixing valve 302 could be used in any number of applications wherein the control and regulation of fluids of dissimilar temperature is desired.

[0064]

Examples of other applications may include, but are not limited to, space and radiant heating applications, heat pump systems, hydronic heating applications, combination heating applications, industrial heating applications, photo processing applications, nursing home applications, greenhouse applications, and/or solar hot water applications. Moreover, in some embodiments such as space heating applications, for example, the mixing valve 302 can be configured to function as a diverting valve to permit the diversion of hot or cold water to particular fixtures within the system, if desired.

[0065]

In the illustrative embodiment, the thermostatic mixing valve 302 is equipped with an optional recirculation inlet 322. A recirculation pipe or conduit 348 in fluid communication with pipe or conduit 346 can be provided to permit the recirculation of mixed water back into the inlet port 334 of the water heater 306. A thermostat 350 and pump 352 operatively coupled to the recirculation pipe or conduit 348 downstream of the fixture units 304,305,306 can be provided to intermittently draw fluid back into the water heater 306, as needed. The thermostat 350 can be set to ensure that the temperature within the recirculation pipe or conduit 348 remains at a certain temperature or range of temperatures, turning on the recirculation pump 352 periodically when the temperature therein reaches a certain minimum threshold temperature. If, desired, a check valve 354 installed downstream of the pump 352 can be provided to prevent the backflow of water into the pump 352.

[0066]

The mixing valve 302 may also include a recirculation inlet 322 in fluid communication with a return pipe or conduit 356 that can be used to recirculate tempered water discharged from the mixed water outlet 320 back into the mixing valve 302. The return pipe or conduit 356 can be connected to the recirculation pipe or conduit 348 at a location downstream of the pump 352, and can include a check valve 358 to prevent the backflow of water from the mixing valve 302 into the return pipe or conduit 356. In use, the ability to recirculate water through the mixing valve 302 may help prevent cold water from building up within the mixed water pipe or conduit 346 during periods of nonuse, or when the demand for mixed water is low. Such recirculation feature within the mixing valve 302 can also be used to overcome the characteristic of many thermostatic mixing valves to overshoot the desired mixing temperature after relatively long periods of nonuse (e.g. overnight) or shortly after a previous draw.

EXAMPLES

[0067]

A series of experiments were designed and performed to optimize the pressure drop across the pressure reducing element and temperature stability of the mixed fluid outlet. Tests varying the diameter (e.g. D, D1, D2) of the aperture of a pressure reducing element inserted into the hot fluid inlet of a mixing valve upstream of the fluid flow regulator were run with four different setups. The parameters for each setup are summarized in Table 1 below:

[0000]

TABLE 1
Experimental Parameters
SetupFlowHot FluidCold Fluid
NameRate (GPM)Temperature In (° F.)Temperature In (° F.)
A814043
B414043
C416543
D816543

[0068]

Setups A-D were each run for each “Aperture Diameter” set forth below. The mixed fluid temperature for each run was measured with a target temperature of 110° F. The results are summarized in Table 2 below:

[0000]

TABLE 2
Experimental Results
ApertureMixed Temperature Output (° F.)
Diameter (inches)Setup ASetup BSetup CSetup D
0.5*110113120116
0.4110113125115
0.38110110118117
0.26110112117110
0.25110111115111
0.22110111115110
0.2110111112110
*No pressure reducing element was present, 0.5″ was the equivalent of the pipe diameter.

[0069]

As can been in Table 2, decreasing the diameter of the pressure reducing element from 0.5 inches to 0.2 inches increased the temperature stability substantially. That is, a diameter of 0.5 inches resulted in the Mixed Temperature Output of the mixing valve to range from 110 to 120 degrees across all four setups A-D, which represents about a 9% temperature variation. In contrast, providing a pressure reducing element with an aperture diameter of 0.2 inches resulted in the Mixed Temperature Output of the mixing valve to range from 110 to 112 degrees across all four setups A-D, which represents about a 1.8% temperature variation. As can be seen, the temperature stability of the Mixed Temperature Output is substantially improved, given variations in the temperature and/or pressure of the hot and/or cold fluids presented at the hot fluid inlet and the cold fluid inlet of the valve.

Saturday, May 6, 2017

Copper pipe electrolysis from touching galvanized steel?

Read article : Copper pipe electrolysis from touching galvanized steel?
topic 24664

An ongoing discussion from 2003 through 2016 . . .

(2003)electrolysis in copper pipe

Q.I recently had a 1/2" TYPE L HMP flexible copper pipe that sprung a leak, unfortunately it was inside the wall going up to the second floor. After splicing the pipe where it was leaking another spot started leaking. I noticed inside the pipe a bunch of green "blobs" & the outside of this (HOT) water pipe a lot cleaner than the other pipe (COLD) that would have been put in at the same time, 20-25 years ago I'm guessing. I did notice one spot where the copper pipe was touching an old galvanized pipe seemed to be wet and green. Could there have been some electrolysis going on that caused this pipe to start getting finer than pin hole leaks & how much damage might have been done to the rest of the plumbing if that is the case?

THANK YOU FOR YOUR HELP,

Alex H [last name deleted for privacy by Editor]
do-it-myself-er - Cedar Rapids , Iowa

(2003)

A.Copper pipes can corrode in at least three different ways, but the differences are quite technical. I would suggest that the corrosion could be induced by a galvanic couple caused by contact with the galvanised pipe and this results in an induced local anodic polarisation of the copper pipe. I would normally expect such a failure to occur where the two pipes come into contact, but if this point is dry, no corrosion will occur and the effects of the galvanised pipe will be transmitted onto the copper pipe where it will react in a more favourable wet environment. Your photograph clearly shows the green copper salts on the inside of the failed straight pipe, so it must have been in an area where the copper is oxidised and failed. The propensity for copper pipes to fail is related to how the pipe was made, the local water composition and the environment it is used in. I would suggest there may be other not be other problems with your copper pipes, as there has already been a failure of an induced polarity, but if there are other non-compatible pipes in contact with each other, there could be a repeat of this. It may be wise to ask a plumber to check your system out.

trevor crichton
Trevor Crichton
R&D practical scientist
Chesham, Bucks, UK

(2004)

Q.I was told by a local plumber that electrolysis can occur in copper pipes when the hot water heating system is part of a forced hot water boiler system. The solution is to put nylon fittings between the copper connections and the galvanized boiler system so as to prevent any electrolysis action from taking place in the copper pipes running throughout the building. I would like to get other opinions since this is an expensive fix and it takes a long time to determine whether the fix in fact works.

Dan W [last name deleted for privacy by Editor]
property management - Juneau, Alaska

(2004)

A.It is the right advise, Dan. For galvanic corrosion to occur you need a metallic circuit and an electrolyte circuit. If you break the conductive metal circuit between the copper and galvanized pipe, galvanic corrosion ("electrolysis")" does not occur. This is not to say that no form of corrosion will ever occur though.

Ted Mooney, finishing.com
Teds signature
Ted Mooney, P.E. RET
finishing.com
Pine Beach, New Jersey
(2004)

A.Copper pipe failure began to occur approximately eight years after completion of a new home in Brewster Co. Texas. The leaks were always in the cold line.

A split-core ammeter revealed a slight current flow between the steel gas pipe and the hot side of the copper system. No current could be detected between the cold copper pipe and the hot, or the steel gas line. This led me to conclude that the cold line was acting as a sacrificial anode between the other two while absorbing all voltage drop.

No electrical bonding could be found.

My solution was to isolate the steel line (which included some galvanized parts), from the copper system with a PVC adapter.

Current flow cannot now be detected unless a jumper is placed between the steel and copper.

Is the problem solved? I don't know! What can be said is that there is no further measurable evidence of electrolytic activity in this particular system.

Sam D [last name deleted for privacy by Editor]
- Alpine, Texas
(2004)

A.As others have mentioned, there are three different ways for holes to develop in a copper line, and I have seen all three.

A typical trade mark of electrolysis is pit on the inside of the pipe where the electrical current has actually eaten away at the piping, this doesn't sound like what is going on.

Another way is corrosion from the outside, normally when the piping in in a damp location with high acid soils, or even in an unsealed sleeve (copper run inside another pipe, usually PVC, and normally from the meter to the house). This is evidenced by pitting on the outside of the pipe.

The last one I have come across, and am still researching, is what it sounds like this gentleman has. It typically will have build-up on the inside of the piping and will often times leave large "blobs" of build up. I don't know what this is for sure, but I do know it isn't electrolysis, and it has nothing to do with water that is too clean (mentioned on another website as a possible answer). I think it has to do with the water quality to a certain degree, but I think it may be the molecular structure not the chemicals used. I think the buildup is a protectant for a "micro-atmosphere" high in maybe hydrogen. But I could be wrong, I am still researching this. I will post any further findings.

Jereme Grisenti
plumbing - Blountville, Tennessee

(2005)

Q.If we were to rivet or otherwise attach a copper sleeve to galvanized chimney pipe, would this cause the galvanized pipe to fail? We have fireplace chimneys on the beach. we have several copper clad chimneys that are doing well, but the maker went out of business. Now we have only galvanized pipe to work with and the outside of it corroding causes an eye sore.

Bryan Malt
- San Diego, California
(2006)

Q.This is a piggy back question.

Three 1/2 inch copper pipes running from my basement to the Laundry room one floor above show the same kind of erosion as the picture accompanying the original question. In each case the green copper salts and pin holes developed where the pipes pass through the floor. You can see the leaking water from below but not from the laundry room level.

After one of two plumbers to replace one of the leaky pipes stated that at one point he felt a very mild electrically shock, I had an electrician check the system. The electrician said he could not find a problem. The electrician checked the system before and after the plumber felt the shock. We could not duplicate the shock with the plumber or the electrician.

The plumber reinstalled the three pipes and wrapped the new pipes in electrical tape at the point where the pipes go through the floor.

Since we have not yet found a source of electrical charge would it be prudent to ground the copper line to an unused galvanized pipe so any current would flow to the unused galvanized pipe? Any help would be appreciated.

Greg Butts
- Stafford, Virginia
(2007)

Q.When copper pipes are plastered over into walls do they need to be protected from corrosion either by cement or plaster?

Mrs M Bridger
Homeowner - Steyning, West Sussex, England
(2007)

Q.I have a brick wall in my bathroom and want to cut a groove in the brick run the copper pipe inside and cement it back up. Will this have a long term effect on the pipe
thanks daz

Dario Ruberto
designer - Toronto, Canada
(2007)

Q.I have some questions regarding electrolysis, or galvanic corrosion between the copper and galvanized water pipes in my house. The house in on a municipal system and it is my understanding that acidic or soft water is not a problem in my area.

I have extremely low pressure in the upstairs bathrooms, and moderately low on the main floor kitchen. In my basement I have galvanized pipes coming in from the street, they supply the hot water heater, and they run the hot water for a few feet beyond the tank. At one point they are connected directly to copper pipes which take the hot and cold supply upstairs to the bathrooms.

I intend to replace the galvanized pipe, but I am trying to decide whether or not to replace the copper pipes going upstairs, and as well the hot water heater.

To make this decision I need to understand a little more about what is going on with the electrolysis. Before discussing the ramifications with the hot water heater, I have the following questions:

1. Where the galvanized and copper connect in the basement, does the electrolysis happen only locally? It seems that the electrons would travel only within the magnetic field created by the metals and therefore only affect the pipes within about a foot or so of the connection. Or, since the water exists through all the pipes, does the electrolysis affect the copper all the way to the upstairs bathrooms?
2. Once the galvanized pipe is removed, will the electrolysis cease? (I understand that new copper and old copper will also create electrolysis but I assume this condition is not as severe.)
3. I understand why galvanized pipe corrodes when coupled with copper but I don't understand why it is that the galvanized pipe becomes filled with gunk on the inside and restricts flow, I would think the corroding would make it get slightly wider on the inside, not more narrow.
4. If I remove the galvanized pipe, can I clean out the remaining copper pipe to make sure there is no corrosive material setting in them? How is this performed?

As far as the hot water heater is concerned, galvanized pipe feeds it and takes the water out of it, however, there is copper flexible tubing that actually connects directly to it. I assume this means the heater has corrosive material in it and will likely not last as long. If I leave the existing heater in place and wait for it to fail, will it contaminate any new piping that I put in?

Also, if I run the new copper water service through the front yard within a few feet of the gas line will this cause electrolysis? If yes, will it affect the pipes inside the house or just in the front yard? Which pipe will get holes and which will narrow? Can I insulate the copper to prevent this?

Justin Zavislak
buyer, hobbyist - Seattle, Washington
July 13, 2008

Q.I have type k copper coming from the main to the shutoff in the house. after reporting a leak it was dug up to be repaired and all was found was a pipe with walls that have thinned considerably and covered in grooves resembling termite damage on wood. it was also riddled with pinholes.

the ground for my electrical is connected to this pipe. could that be a possible cause. please help. there other houses in the area that have had there lines replaced twice in the last 20 years.

thanks, cy

cyrus lambert
hobbyist - conne river, Newfoundland, Canada
July 20, 2008

A.Where I work they were having problems with the copper pipes. The anode rods in the water storage tanks had been all wore down. Plumbers found the electrical system grounding rod had been disconnected & everything was grounding through the plumbing, causing the problems. You might want to check but I think it is a code violation now to ground through your plumbing only.

Alex Hatfield
- Cedar Rapids, Iowa

August 30, 2008

Q.I have a problem identical to to the lead in this thread. Green spots on rigid type L 1/2 in copper pipe with water seepage. This 14+ ft run of pipe is leading from my gas fired hot water heater (after a few short copper fittings) across the drywall finished basement ceiling to a T that feeds hot water to most of the house. I noticed a small spot of mold on the ceiling, cut it open and found this pipe with green spots like the picture above and two of the spots (at different ends of this one section of pipe) have water seepage. There are several other copper pipes , cold water and feeds for hot water heating that have no green spots,(only this one length of hot water has the spots) and also a flexible gas line in the same bay. My fix is to replace this entire length. A difficult job for me, tight spaces overhead, and hope there are no other bad pipe in the house. Please confirm the cause of this. Is it likely to be elsewhere or reoccur?

David Goldman
- W Milford, New Jersey
September 3, 2008

A.In response to the gentleman who experienced a leak on a 1/2 copper pipe and then he split it exposing this thick green blob running on the inside for some unknown length. well from dealing with similar repairs and from years of experience in the field this green corrosion that you are talking about stands far from electrolysis. this green gunk/blob is what we use to solder/sweat our copper pipes with better known as FLUX this product is applied to the outside of the copper pipe once it has been cleaned and reamed. putting too much flux on the pipe and fitting will cause the excess to flow into the pipe and will settle on the inside of the pipe until the system gets energized and water flows flushing out the excess flux. if it was not flushed out and was left as is; guess what? call your plumber.....thanks.

Armando Olvera
- Costa Mesa, California

September 14, 2008

Q.Within the last 9 weeks we have called the plumber 3 times regarding a 4 ft. section of hot water copper piping. Each time a pinhole sealing leak about 4-6 feet away from a recently replaced(5 months ago that our plumber installed) electric hot water heater. After replacing 2 inch copper pipe sections at a time we finely asked him to change a length of pipe but, only last night we developed another leak, a foot over from the new pipe, closer to the water heater. Our house is 15 years old and we use city water. The leaky pipe had green discoloration at the leak points. The plumber says this problem could be expected in this area in homes using well water after about 20 years due to the highly acidic soil but we use city water and our pipes are in the sealing. He's suggesting we may need to replace all of our pipes but it seems strange that the leaks are all near the water heater. Could the water heater be faulty or it's installation be the problem?

Chris McQuillen
homeowner - Crescent City, California
September 14, 2008

A.Hi, Chris. I'd be pretty confident that is has to do with something electrical rather than well water. I think I'd call an electrician rather than calling the plumber again.

Regards,

Ted Mooney, finishing.com
Teds signature
Ted Mooney, P.E. RET
finishing.com
Pine Beach, New Jersey

(2005)September 30, 2008

Q.can a copper water line be spliced to an existing galvanized water pipe line?

Keith Medved
- Dyer, Indiana

A.Hi, Keith. When you transition from one kind of metal pipe to another, the correct thing to do is to use dielectric unions =>

These are unions that include a plastic insulator so there is no metal-to-metal contact. I'm not saying that this is always done, but it is the right way to insure that there can be no galvanic corrosion.

Regards,

Ted Mooney, finishing.com
Teds signature
Ted Mooney, P.E. RET
finishing.com
Pine Beach, New Jersey

October 24, 2008

Q.How can one determine the cause of frequent deterioration of a 3/4" copper water supply line? The section going bad is located underground at the block wall of the foundation. The home owner had to replace this line two times within the past year. The deterioration seems to occur on the outside of the pipe. There were no problems prior to the first replacement of this pipe section 9 months ago. The home has city water and uses a sump pump due to a high level of ground water. I don't know the pH level of the water. The basement is dry, but uses on a "floating slab" to channel away the ground water. I conducted load tests of the electric panel to verify the electric wiring. All tests proved satisfactory with only about .2 amps or less flowing to the ground wire. This is when a 35 amp load is applied to each 120 volt leg. This proves that practically all current is flowing back through the neutral conductor. The electric service is lacking the required two, 8 foot ground rods. There is only one ground rod, and it appears to have been installed as a ground for the telephone system. At this point I'm thinking the corrosion and deterioration was not caused by excessive current flowing top ground via this water supply line.

Dave Baylor
- Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
May 22, 2009

Q.Hi, Our house is 6 years old and from the time we moved in we have had this "green" problem. It has ruined my hair and has left stains in the sinks and toilets. We have had 2 different water softeners and 2 water heaters. We discussed this with the last water softener person and I guess they didn't have a clue about this problem. No one has until I
talked to some nerd at the company that tests the water for the city. He said that it was probably because of the fittings that the water softener company put on the copper pipes and if we didn't rectify the problem, we would eventually have pin size holes in the pipes and leaks! What do we do, who do we call and how do we go about fixing this problem! I want long hair again! Thanks!

Kathy L. Maxwell
- Grover Beach, California
December 8, 2009

A.While replacing the copper piping in a 150 year old home, I was puzzled by the green buildup inside of the pipe. Tracing the pipe I discovered that a ground clamp and wire from the circuit breaker box was connected to the cold water line 15' from the water meter where a jumper wire was also connected to the pipe from the street. In the circuit breaker box the Neutral buss was bonded to the Ground buss. That was okay. I also checked the sub panel to make sure the Ground buss and Neutral buss were not connected.

The wire mains from the electrical meter are aluminum. Current will find the least path of resistance, therefore current leakage to the piping is occurring. The remedy for this is to drive a conductive rod into the ground as deep as local code requires and connect a ground wire. Additionally I moved the ground clamp to the incoming side of the water meter, and removed the grounding jumper. As the water meter has dielectric connections the leakage can not return into the water piping since it is no longer grounded.

Bert Cooper
Equipment Designer - Williamsport, Pennsylvania

June 11, 2010

Q.Type K soft copper pinholes. We are having numerous issues with 3/4" and 1" and even a couple 2" services running from the mainline in the street to the property. 10 years ago or so we started having pinhole leaks appear on the copper always next to a flaired fitting so naturally everyone blamed it on a bad flair, then the specs changed and we were allowed to use compression fittings. This is now happening with the compression fittings as well, now everyone is blaming it on not de-burring the copper properly.

We just had to dig up a leak and found the pinhole leak in the middle of the 1" copper run (no fittings even close) and the copper was in a 4" sleeve under a major street which would eliminate the corrosive soil theory which the supplier will want to use, also the leak was on the top of the copper so a rubbing situation is not the answer. I have a question, is it possible for the copper at the time of production to have impurities introduced causing an electrolysis situation? Do you know of any other town having this problem. The suppliers here have no idea and have never even heard of this problem before which I find hard to believe. Thank you for your time and opinion

Bill Williams
water company - Tucson, Arizona
September 9, 2010

Q.I have recently installed and new water softener with an aerater in my home. My home is 26 years old and several weeks after the installation I noticed a blueish/green tint. I have had the water tested and the copper level is high, can the new system cause this?

Rachele Cancia
home owner -Sunrise, Florida
November 26, 2010

Q.I had an odd situation and was wondering if there is a known reason.
Last evening we noticed water dripping from the ceiling. Upon cutting open the ceiling, I noticed that the 3/4 hot water heating pipe (not sure if supply or return) was pressing firmly against the 1/2 hot water supply pipe, and that a leak had developed in the (smaller) hot water pipe where they touched. Fortunately, the heating pipe was connected to flexible copper to go up through the floor, and I was able to push the pipes apart and repair the supply line easily, but I am concerned what might have caused this leak.

Mike Paulson
former kitchen contractor, retired -falls church, Virginia

December 17, 2010

Below is an excerpt from Wikipedia's "Tap Water" page at en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tap_water

"Pin-hole leaks can occur anytime copper piping is improperly grounded and/or bonded; nonmetal piping, such as Pex or PVC, does not suffer from this problem. The phenomenon is known technically as stray current corrosion or electrolytic pitting. Pin-holing due to poor grounding or poor bonding occurs typically in homes where the original plumbing has been modified; homeowners may find a new plastic water filtration device or plastic repair union has interrupted the water pipe's electrical continuity to ground when they start seeing pinhole water leaks after a recent install. Damage occurs rapidly, usually being seen about six months after the ground interruption."

Q.So if I understand this correctly, adding a union may cause this problem? How does one connect copper pipe to galvanized steel then, or how to bond from copper pipe (cold water line, for example) to iron pipe (gas line, for example)? What materials is the bond conductor made of?

Andy Roberts
-Maynard, Massachusetts

May 13, 2011

A.I have seen electrolysis occur with galv. steel straps, hangers and supports, with copper. It usually occurs at the point.
Pin Hole leaks are mostly caused by incorrect installation of plumbing pipes.
For example, If a plumber uses a pipe cutter, to cut a pipe, it leaves a ridge on the inside of the pipe. This causes a ripple in the flow of water going through the pipe, and will eventually start eating away at the pipe, from the inside out. This was a common occurrence back when track homes were booming, and the track rats were doing high volume production, and not installing correctly.
You can verify this, by separating the pipes at the soldered joint, and stick you finger in the pipe and feel the edge. If you feel a sharp edge, then the fitter never filed the inside edge to remove this. Which this is why it will happen in multiple places in your home. Also the reason it happens more to cold water lines, is because you use your cold water more that your hot.

Keith Van Aalst

-Anaheim California


February 3, 2012 -- this entry appended to this thread by editor in lieu of spawning a duplicative thread

Q.I need to run natural gas to an outside heater. I have a 3/4" gal water line which is no longer used, am hoping to run type 'L' flex 1/2" copper line thru this line to supply gas to out side heater, is that possible or is there something I could wrap the copper with to make it work?

Bob Hendrickson
-Pontiac, Illinois, USA
February 25, 2012

Q.I have a bunch of copper fittings. 1/2", 3/4" & 1"; I had the fittings for a year or more. Some of the fittings are starting to get corrosion on them, a greenish thick coating. What is causing this and how do I control/stop it. All the fittings are new and never used.

Ken Kramlich
-Sacramento, California, USA
February 27, 2012

A.Hi, Ken.

Copper corrodes, but usually not that quickly. The simplest fix is probably to put them in a plastic bag with desiccant. Sodium benzotriazole is a copper preservative. You can use brass lacquer if you are trying to protect them for artistic rather than functional use. Good luck.

Regards,

Ted Mooney, finishing.com
Teds signature
Ted Mooney, P.E. RET
finishing.com
Pine Beach, New Jersey

December 18, 2012

A. After reading all of the postings about plumbing -
There are a lot of factors to touch on.

Any type of pipe can be connected to a different type of pipe with the right connectors that can be found at big box or good hardware store.

The green spots inside or outside of a copper pipe is cause by Flux.
Flux is an acid that is used by plumbers when the copper piped is fitted together and soldered.
When a plumber puts too much flux on the copper fittings or pipe - It stays inside the pipe and causes the pipe and or fittings to corrode because the water does not get hot enough to melt flux in order to get it flushed out of the pipe or fittings.
Even if you air pressure out the lines, all of the flux will not move out of the copper pipe because flux is a paste, and what little amount of flux that does move will stick to any joining type of Copper or Plastic or PVC or Galvanized pipe or fittings.
Green spots on the outside of a copper pipe or fittings usually means the plumber did not wipe off any left over flux on the out side of the copper pipe or fittings, or the copper pipe has started to corrode from the inside out from using too much flux inside the pipe and the flux has made its way to the outside of the copper pipe or fittings and needs to be replaced.

As far as electric or electric ground going through copper - Electricity will slowly soften up the excess flux that was used on the copper pipe or fittings.
As the flux softens, and because Flux is an acid, it will slowly break down the copper pipe or fittings and needs to be replaced.

NOTE:
Most electric or electric ground going through a copper pipe is not a high enough voltage to melt flux -- it will only soften the flux.

NOTE:
If your phone line is grounded to the copper line then this alone is enough to soften the flux.
If you put some flux on both the neg. and pos. post of a small charged 9 volt battery you will find that the flux will soften.
If you leave the flux on the battery the flux will corrode the battery because flux is an acid.

NOTE:
If your phone or cable is grounded to your copper pipe this is enough electric for a person to get a small shock when touching the copper pipe.
After a person touches the pipe and gets a small shock, it takes quite a while for the electric to build back up because the voltage is quite low.
It is because the voltage is so low that when a person touches a copper pipe and gets a small shock you have depleted the electric in the copper pipe and a shock will not happen again until the electric builds back up in the copper pipe.

NOTE:
Anytime you have to run a copper pipe behind a wall that will be closed in, only use HARD copper pipe (NOT ROLLED TUBING OR SOFT TUBING). Place the copper pipe inside of a piece of PVC pipe and do not have any fittings or couplings that have been soldered inside the PVC pipe.
If you need to soldier on fittings - Solder the fittings on after you have cleared the wall that will be closed in. It will also be helpful to use liquid foam between the copper pipe and the PVC pipe to stop any pipes from clanking when the water is turned on or off. You can pre make up the pipe with the foam in order to let the liquid foam set up.

I hope this information is helpful.

Jim Drake
- Fredericksburg, Virginia, USA

April 20, 2013

A.To those dismissing the "green blobs" as residual flux are not understanding what I think are the inquisitors' issues. We built our home in 2004 and within a couple of years we started experiencing problems in our master shower. Initially, I was able to disassemble the hot water supply in the manifolds and clear out the green "blobbish" crystals. Our master shower is large and has multiple shower heads and two shower manifolds. Since then the problem appear to only exist in the master bath "hot" water lines. I have never had any issue with the cold water lines.

To give a little more detail. The green blobs I am experiencing a hard crystals and not any type of pasty or flux consistency. I have found galvanized steel nipples between the copper supply lines and the brass shower fittings. Two years ago the galvanized nipple on the shower with the most serious blockage, had nearly corroded away completely. Fortunately I had decided inspect the inside of the shower wall after suspecting some sort of "electronic" cause. This morning I found the same union on the second shower head that is now almost completely blocked.

I should have recognized something was wrong in the construction of our plumbing lines during the build simply because of the sloppy solder joints. I have a rudimentary knowledge of plumbing as my father was a plumber. Unfortunately, I was traveling extensively and didn't have time to address the bootleg plumbers my builder contracted.
I guess I was depending on the inspectors to alert us of any issues, but I have learned that lesson.

In summary, I would conclude that the green crystals are formed from kind electric current activity in addition to the hardness of your water. Our municipal water is very hard and my water softener is worthless so we are going to rip out the bathroom walls to see what other surprises we have in store and get a new water softening system.

Vaughn Broadnax
- Carmel, Indiana, USA

copper pipe secured with metal straps
May 21, 2013

Q.During a bathroom remodel, the plumber used some metal strapping (likely galvanized steel)to further secure the copper piping from the shower valve to the shower outlet. (see photo) Days later, my contractor had secured a loose toilet supply valve with a plastic part and explained that a metal material could negatively interact with the copper and eventually cause a leak. (I think he himself had just come upon this info when he went to home depot to pick-up the part.)
I then remembered seeing how the plumber used the metal strapping to basically tie back the copper piping. The wall has since been scratch coated and is about to be floated. I've alerted my contractor about this and am awaiting a reply. I really do not want the float to happen until I know for sure that there is definitely no problem with the set-up, or, until it is corrected. Any input on this would greatly be appreciated.

Jack Goldstein
- Mission Viejo, California, USA

May 22, 2013

A.Hi Jack. You need 3 things for galvanic corrosion:
- dissimilar metals so there is an inherent voltage between them,
- metallic contact path between the two metals so that electrons can flow from one metal to the other,
- a moist and conductive ionic path so that positively charged ions can follow the electrons, transporting atoms of metal from one point to another.

You certainly have the first two, but whether the third condition is met well enough for serious concern is always the question, and sometimes hard to define. When such a condition is sealed behind a wall, it sounds to me like poor practice -- then again, I'm not a plumber. You might see if you can find anything in the plumbing code about it. The problem would have been easy to avoid with any kind of plastic between the pipe and strap; you can hopefully get a scrap of Visqueen in between them without much damage to the wall. Good luck.

Regards,

Ted Mooney, finishing.com
Teds signature
Ted Mooney, P.E. RET
finishing.com
Pine Beach, New Jersey

June 3, 2013

Q.Having pin hole issues on the cold water line repeatedly over approx. 8 years -- same area.
The house used to have copper pipe coming in from the street and we did not have a ground strap on it. I can see how the pin holes would happen then. Then the copper pipe was replaced with PVC out to the street so there seemed to be no need for the ground on the street side of the meter, but I left the ground connected on the house side (still copper here). Was this wrong? Still another pin hole problem this year.
Tired of water leaks, Tom

Tom Canarecci
- Mishawaka, Indiana, USA
July 11, 2013

Q.We have an apartment building that keeps getting leaks in the first apartment. I have read everything and understand the problem, but we don't have money to replace all the pipes, so every few months there is a leak. The last time we had to replace all the carpet because it was leaking over a full weekend.

I have been told by one plumber that he heard of a product that can be put in the pipes that would coat the insides and help prevent the pinholes from developing.
Is there any such product?

Also someone told me of a product that can be painted on the pipes like a silicone or latex component that might be able to help.

If you know of any products like this that I can try, please let me know.

Thank you.

Lisa Keylon
- Fountain Valley, California, USA
February 11, 2016

Q. I just noticed there is corrosion at the elbo 90 connector of hot water copper pipe going out of water heater. Both are copper pipes - so wondering what's causing the corrosion. Otherwise I'm planning to
Simply planning to use fix-it stick/Keeny pipe wrap tape as temporary fix until I get time to call plumber to cut the pipe and rejoin.
Please advise:
1) is it ok to fix temporarily
2) if I need to dig in further to find the cause before I fix it.
3) are there any other things I need to check / replace while I'm fixing it.
Btw- this is house is 10 yrs old.

Venu Reddy
- Waukee, Iowa

April 8, 2016

A. You can also use a brass nipple between copper and galvanize .

Rodolfo ruiz
- Pasadena California usa
April 2016

thumbs up signThanks, Rudolfo. Yes, you can use a brass nipple between them ... but I don't think it will do much towards stopping galvanic corrosion.

Regards,

pic of Ted Mooney
Ted Mooney, P.E. RET
finishing.com
Pine Beach, New Jersey
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